I am more than twice the age of Anne. Yet, I fully understand this "autoandrophobia." They may deny it for the benefit of the Motte and Bailey strategy. But the anti-male messages of feminists still hurt me in my soul, even though I recognized the falsity of them. And in my young adulthood found alternate methods of thinking about masculinity from writers like Robert Bly.
Teaching young boys to hate themselves on account of their gender is a long-term, insidious evil. Here we see its results on another victim, who had never been taught how to love himself as a man, and the path to becoming a good man who does not need to apologize for how he was born.
I think anyone can understand anyone's personal feeling that being male or female is associated with being bad or good. imo, this is most likely due to circumstances and experiences in ones own life. i also understand that if one had a personal disposition toward this feeling, statements by feminists and other groups may feel like an emphasis of this idea. imo, if one has these feelings, and these feelings contributing to debilitating or negative thoughts, it maybe a good idea to speak with a non affirming therapist about it. perhaps it could be discovered that statements of family members are the source of these ideas. in my own case, being raised as catholic, without parents who spoke at all about a lot of things, led to the feeling that one is bad. catholics teach that people are born as sinners. and the term catholic guilt is a known thing. kids who experience trauma often internalize it and blame themself for a variety of circumstances they had no control over. for example abuse victims are often blamed for their own abuse by the abuser. kids can blame themself for many other situations and can carry around this misplaced guilt their entire lives. in many cases a person may come to deal with these feelings over time. part of the harm of gender affirmation is that it prevents resolution of issues by trapping psych issue sufferers into a cycle of perpetual trauma. once opposite gender is affirmed, all psych issues are shoed into a one size fits all paradigm that blames all issues on imaginary gender, preventing resolution of psych issues.
the other problem with gender affirmation is that its implementation omits any negative aspects. the inconvenient truth is that gender affirmation related policies and claims rob the rights of a half a doz groups. people who are intrested in womens rights are just one of the groups that are harmed by gender ideology. others include kids, gays, ppl with psych issues, parents and others. when people blame feminists for feminists objection to gender policies, their blame is misplaced. instead, they should blame the groups that advocate for gender affirmation while ommiting that its implementation robs the rights of others, thereby setting up conflict with others. conflict has its escalating own cycle. when people talk past east other they start to talk louder. 99% of assults on women are via men. thats why women need spaces safe from men. no one cares if gnc people use the mens room. its not a perfect solution i admit. but it wasnt women who created this issue. it was white male fetishists and the pill industry who have cynically harmed vulnerable ppl with psych issues by promoting a quack intervention with zero evidence of benefit that also pits people against each other
I'm not objecting to any of that. Nor do I mean to dilute the blame for the gender transition activists who, I agree, sell an expensive and dangerous snake oil to suffering people. Nor do I object to women's spaces, clubs, bathrooms, and other areas of privacy. (Though I would suggest there's no harm for men having their own spaces as well, even if only for the social aspect of male friends, rather than being asked to open up their clubs to women)
The objection I hold is there is a venom to some feminist positions that do indeed attack men and masculinity at its root. And if internalized, these damage boys man -- not will, but certainly may -- seek relief in the gender transition cult.
I have witnessed feminists using the "Motte and Bailey" strategy within the same lecture -- beginning with "Feminism only means we want the same rights as men" and continuing into the slur of "Toxic Masculinity." And it is a slur, and should be considered a slur.
Masculinity is not Toxic. A lack of masculinity is.
I observed that comment I referred to from a college instructor.
Mock me if you want, but that just demonstrates more that there's an issue you'd rather not notice. Let the termites eat more of the floorboards; that's easier than acknowledging that there is a problem.
By the way, every group has its bad apples. It is no challenge to find bad men. It is also no challenge to find bad women. But the zeitgeist of the Wokist mind cult insists that some groups can consistently be denigrated -- always -- and others must not and cannot -- according to the dictums of the woke Komissars.
That seems to be where you are.
You don't care to acknowledge what it might do to a boy's ego to hear about how evil he is, and how evil he will be when he grows into a man, from a teacher he's supposed to respect.
That psychological damage does not interest you.
But it might when the results bloom, and that boy grew up into a very angry and disaffecting man who, being convinced he could only be evil, will act on it in a straightforward or non-straightforward manner.
But you'd rather suffer than then dare suggest that there could be any flaw within the endless jabbing at men.
i acknowledged it and suggested that if this issue is causing severe negative thiughts they should go to not affirming therapist. the world is a tough place. idiots are everywhere. my wife had a tough
childhood . her mother is a narcissist. her psych issues are the result of a million negative comments. shes continues to be very sensitive about whatever people say. i recall telling her yesterday the only way to win this is to stop careing whay others think.
life ain't easy. i empathize with this person. i think anyone would. first he had issues that caused him to suffer in a way thats not really describable but that many are familier with. and then he was misled about evidence that affirming opposite gender would help. we now know that for the past 20+ years big biz and established activist groups have been making false statements regarding the efficacy of gac. every stat and statement that claims gac helps is a lie. what this guy needed was likely psych care and or psych meds. but where does that lead this person now? its difficult to say. this is colored by so many conflicting emotions and inner reflections. these many inner reflections are also part of the curse of gac. when psych issues are allowed to continue without gac, they usually discontinue over time. and thats where i would want to go, if i were him. i realize im likely not using the polite pronouns, but i feel using ID pronouns harms people using them. and i dont want to harm anyone. so how do you get to a place where thinking about your suffering isnt a constant activity. i certinly would at least concider stop taking gender meds. i know thats not easy. but long term the meds cause misery. the goal is to stop going to the dr. and to stop thinking about suffering. 90 out of 100 people if they looked at their life know it would be a curse to be constantly reminded of their most tragic time in their life
Richie, I believe Anne is searching honestly and sincerely, but that does not mean she understands herself and her feelings. Despite all the theory she is searching for, she builds a wall rather than being receptive to warnings like yours. I do not believe that these feelings, as you suggest here, are hardwired. You will never get out of them that way. The problem is the other way around, we humans are less determined than other species. That greater freedom is what makes it difficult for us. We get caught up in value judgments, and this always evokes feelings that we project further onto ourselves. I do not believe that we help these people by going along with their story. Anne is only 21 years old, these people need to be protected from themselves. What she has to learn, and what we all have to learn, is rid ourselves of negative thoughts about ourselves, our bodies, our sex as a whole. Learning to love ourselves - in our male or female state, is the key. Knowing that it is okay to be as we are - that the other sex is no better or worse - without attaching too much value to it. Only this can free us from the delusion we have fallen into.
I'm very concerned for anyone who says he's influenced by Anne Lawrence, the doctor who was fired and lost his license to practice medicine because witnesses observed him groping a Muslim patient under anesthesia for a surgery not related to sex or identity. He wanted to know if the patient had been mutilated in the traditional removal of a woman's clitoris and parts of the labia as a religious ritual. Lawrence was an anesthesiologist, and his statements about women like me are, well, just not nice. The lack of closure regarding the death of your interviewee's father is also concerning. I sincerely hope he is experimenting only with superficial appearances and not taking estrogen or planning surgical modifications to his urinary tract. My point of view as a trans widow who collects data on the experiences of the wives of men ideating a female persona grants me knowledge of many details in the obsession. A child psychologist, Dr. Elliot Kaminetsky now terms it as Identity-Based Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I hope the influence of pornography of that sissy-hypno variety does not play a large role in his day to day routines; that he might find a way to connect to the spirit within his solar plexus and a mind/body reconnect through holistic physical work like Primal Fitness, Alexander body work and/or Feldenkrais physical therapy, as connections to the abdominal wall and calming of the vagus nerve vastly reconfigure stress reactions. He will never be accepted as a woman by the majority of the female sex. This may sound like harsh reality, but the tough love is borne out by detransitioners such as yourself, Ritchie, and Alexander L, Sam Kaye, Chris Beck, Hasci Horvath and so many others. I send you hugs and warm regards from my fall garden. To my surprise, a large Praying Mantis was sunning on my front door this morning when I opened it retrieve my just-arrived order of fall bulbs! Heal in nature. Please be well, all of you.
Thank you, once again, for wading into a difficult subject. Listening to the absolute certainty of this young person about hating their genitalia etc, reminds me of the absolute certainty my son manifested when he declared himself trans. By then he (like many others) had, rewritten his entire life to fit the narrative, with help from a trans therapist. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but my son was utterly convincing to those who hadn’t seen him up close the first 20 years of his life. I hope this young person holds off on surgery for awhile.
I'm not at all convinced that this young guy suffers from autogynephilia, though I grant he might have good reasons to think so that he just doesn't want to share in public. However, as described by Lawrence etc autogynephilia seems extremely driven by male libido, and that doesn't seem to be the case here. Rather, I'm reminded of Alexander's story, of what Hakeem says about autism and Burgo about shame. I think there's a certain type of "asexuality" and dissociation and hatred of one's genitals and body functions that's probably connected to autistic traits and that we see throughout history in a lot of philosophers and religious ascetes etc who want to disown their bodies and sexuality and live on a purely spiritual or intellectual level.
Now, there's a very contemporary version of it that's influenced by feminism and all about wanting to escape being a "cis hetero man". But I think it's wrong to blame feminism for causing the problem because it's just the latest presentation of a much older phenomenon. Older presentations used to be more straightforwardly misogynist and inspired by patriarchal religions and philosophical traditions, often blaming women for the evils of (male) sexuality. Now there's an outlet in rejecting "toxic masculinity" and trying to become an idealised woman (or girl), much like girls are trying to escape womanhood.
However, if it's genuinely about not wanting to do harm, not being a "toxic male", oppressor or sexual aggressor, consider this: Rejecting masculinity by castrating yourself and becoming a eunuch passing himself off as a woman in society is the ultimate insult to women and only perpetuates patriarchy. Women have been told by men for centuries that they're just failed men, incomplete men, inferior versions of the model human. Denying women their separate existence is patriarchal, misogynistic thinking on steroids. A man deciding to become a simulacrum of a woman is hardly about respecting women. Ultimately it's something he does for himself however self-harming and whatever the fashionable surface explanation.
1) "I first cross dressed when I was 8 and felt as though I wanted to be a girl when I was around 12-13. I hated the changes of puberty and wished my body was female.”"
There is that word FEEL again (felt) .. what does it feel like to be the opposite sex? Obviously for this person it wasn't just cross dressing.
2) I wish you would have asked this person WHY they hate their own genitals? I mean I think a lot of teens hate themselves in some way, shape or form. Looks, weight, yada yada.
3) This person wants a more scientific perspective. Have they read the CASS report and other things? I mean that is evidence.
I am not trying to belittle them their thoughts or perspective just curious.
Hey Ritchie, regardless of the reality of Anne's feelings, and how you would feel about it; I would strongly advise against surgery. What's the worst that can happen, if you get in the way of someone's life altering decision? If you love someone, why not get in the way as much as possible? Yes, maybe the worse that could happen if you got in the way by literally forcing someone the other way; you would be forcing them away and increasing their resistance to make their own decision even if it is in error. That is just a natural law of wilfulness. I don't mean get in the way by forcing Anne. But I wouldn't be afraid to voice a stronger objection to genital origami, as you have put it. You wrote that your scars remind you of your foolishness, a decision you could not go back from, procedures caused you ongoing pain both physically and mentally? What if you could prevent someone from doing something similar? Don't be afraid to apply your own experience to someone else's situation. I believe this is EXACTLY the scenario in which the trauma you experienced; APPLIES. "I hope if they do go through with it, it does give them peace, and are able to move on with their life with minimal discomfort." I'm sorry Ritchie, you know what happens if they got through with it, and it is not "minimal discomfort". And do you really think that peace gained by a gender reassignment surgery could ever be true peace?
not that I want to put this burden on you.
But maybe this puts purpose on your own suffering. Keep someone else from going down that path. Warn them against it. You don't have to disparage Anne's whole being in order to disagree with her decision. Also, it does not seem that Anne believes in God. That would help clear things up; I pray that the LORD would reveal the evil spirit behind this "auto androphobia".
The devil has been a murderer from the beginning. He is a liar and the father of lies. Hatred for male and female comes from him, because male and female are made in the image of God.
I found a lead when I followed your conversation with "Anne Onymous";
"I have noticed in most TSs, and in “surgery addicts” especially, a certain sort of self-loathing, a drive to efface every shred of masculinity. While I readily admit to my own autogynephilia, I would contend that my own drives toward feminization seem to have a component pushing me from the opposite direction as well.
Would this be “autoandrophobia,” perhaps?
Now, if you think you’ve caught a lot of shit about autogynephilia, just imagine what would happen if I used “TS” and “self-loathing” in the same sentence! Nonetheless, I see my own transsexual feelings paralleled in the words of people with other body dysphorias. Obviously, I’d need to think this through pretty seriously before I’d say anything for all to read, but your paper helped me form a word for that part of my own drive toward feminization.
.
Now take a look at that. I appreciate the honesty from ANDREA "a drive to efface every shred of masculinity"
Honesty can't deliver anyone from such a tendency.
people need to be delivered from thinking they are the agents of their own destiny; thoughts and drives originate and end with their decision.
I guess the desire for the trans identity to be made tangible is a desire for an individual to validate their internal locus of control - they have been dealing with feelings which they cannot control, and which they cannot explain; and to cope with that, to resolve the cognitive dissonance, to end the battle in their minds which they cannot control; the body takes the blame, and they can exercise a twisted form of dominion.
Once they have resolved themselves in their mind; the battle of their uncertainty of themselves is put on the back burner - now they are "trans" in identity; so they are clear on that, therefore that which follows from them must obey the same principles of dominion which are governing their mind.
Before, when they were divided and struggling with their own cognitive dissonance, they were powerless to effect change.
Given the power of the illusion to make a substantive change in nature via hormonal manipulation and flesh origami;
They don't have to change their minds or continue to struggle with the cognitive dissonance;
now they just have to advance the agenda which has become fixed in their minds against their body which is fixed in nature
To keep the illusion of this power of their change in nature going;
as the body will naturally fight against such measures,
they need to ever keep on administering ever escalating treatments -
the maintenance of the same mental state thus will become more and more costly; to the endemic features of their native physique.
and financially, emotionally,
until they become a drained version of what they once were;
now with a new face,
which will not last for long, in the grand scheme of things.
"What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul"?
.
I wish to add one thing here - I once had a friend named Kai, who I thought had a beautiful face. I found out that Kai had already undergone some facial surgery so that Kai would be able to bear the reflection which Kai saw in the mirror.
However, Kai was then always honing in on another feature.
I had never seen Kai before his first surgery - had something to do with the chin, I think;
but Kai was fretting over his nose; and angling for a nose surgery.
He described how they would BREAK his nose and restructure it.
This thought gave me pain, and it pained me that this was necessary.
Of course at the time there was nothing I could do to convince Kai...I just honestly told him that I loved his nose the way it was and the thought of him breaking it to restructure it for vanity pained me.
He was also talking about breaking his cheekbones to restructure them.
Anyway at the time all I could do was affirm him, that we loved Kai the way he was;
I wish I could have shared some spiritual truth with him which would have set him free from the bondage of gender dysmorphia...
That's all I'm saying, may the LORD have mercy upon us all, in the mighty name of JESUS.
I am more than twice the age of Anne. Yet, I fully understand this "autoandrophobia." They may deny it for the benefit of the Motte and Bailey strategy. But the anti-male messages of feminists still hurt me in my soul, even though I recognized the falsity of them. And in my young adulthood found alternate methods of thinking about masculinity from writers like Robert Bly.
Teaching young boys to hate themselves on account of their gender is a long-term, insidious evil. Here we see its results on another victim, who had never been taught how to love himself as a man, and the path to becoming a good man who does not need to apologize for how he was born.
I think anyone can understand anyone's personal feeling that being male or female is associated with being bad or good. imo, this is most likely due to circumstances and experiences in ones own life. i also understand that if one had a personal disposition toward this feeling, statements by feminists and other groups may feel like an emphasis of this idea. imo, if one has these feelings, and these feelings contributing to debilitating or negative thoughts, it maybe a good idea to speak with a non affirming therapist about it. perhaps it could be discovered that statements of family members are the source of these ideas. in my own case, being raised as catholic, without parents who spoke at all about a lot of things, led to the feeling that one is bad. catholics teach that people are born as sinners. and the term catholic guilt is a known thing. kids who experience trauma often internalize it and blame themself for a variety of circumstances they had no control over. for example abuse victims are often blamed for their own abuse by the abuser. kids can blame themself for many other situations and can carry around this misplaced guilt their entire lives. in many cases a person may come to deal with these feelings over time. part of the harm of gender affirmation is that it prevents resolution of issues by trapping psych issue sufferers into a cycle of perpetual trauma. once opposite gender is affirmed, all psych issues are shoed into a one size fits all paradigm that blames all issues on imaginary gender, preventing resolution of psych issues.
the other problem with gender affirmation is that its implementation omits any negative aspects. the inconvenient truth is that gender affirmation related policies and claims rob the rights of a half a doz groups. people who are intrested in womens rights are just one of the groups that are harmed by gender ideology. others include kids, gays, ppl with psych issues, parents and others. when people blame feminists for feminists objection to gender policies, their blame is misplaced. instead, they should blame the groups that advocate for gender affirmation while ommiting that its implementation robs the rights of others, thereby setting up conflict with others. conflict has its escalating own cycle. when people talk past east other they start to talk louder. 99% of assults on women are via men. thats why women need spaces safe from men. no one cares if gnc people use the mens room. its not a perfect solution i admit. but it wasnt women who created this issue. it was white male fetishists and the pill industry who have cynically harmed vulnerable ppl with psych issues by promoting a quack intervention with zero evidence of benefit that also pits people against each other
I'm not objecting to any of that. Nor do I mean to dilute the blame for the gender transition activists who, I agree, sell an expensive and dangerous snake oil to suffering people. Nor do I object to women's spaces, clubs, bathrooms, and other areas of privacy. (Though I would suggest there's no harm for men having their own spaces as well, even if only for the social aspect of male friends, rather than being asked to open up their clubs to women)
The objection I hold is there is a venom to some feminist positions that do indeed attack men and masculinity at its root. And if internalized, these damage boys man -- not will, but certainly may -- seek relief in the gender transition cult.
I have witnessed feminists using the "Motte and Bailey" strategy within the same lecture -- beginning with "Feminism only means we want the same rights as men" and continuing into the slur of "Toxic Masculinity." And it is a slur, and should be considered a slur.
Masculinity is not Toxic. A lack of masculinity is.
I observed that comment I referred to from a college instructor.
Mock me if you want, but that just demonstrates more that there's an issue you'd rather not notice. Let the termites eat more of the floorboards; that's easier than acknowledging that there is a problem.
By the way, every group has its bad apples. It is no challenge to find bad men. It is also no challenge to find bad women. But the zeitgeist of the Wokist mind cult insists that some groups can consistently be denigrated -- always -- and others must not and cannot -- according to the dictums of the woke Komissars.
That seems to be where you are.
You don't care to acknowledge what it might do to a boy's ego to hear about how evil he is, and how evil he will be when he grows into a man, from a teacher he's supposed to respect.
That psychological damage does not interest you.
But it might when the results bloom, and that boy grew up into a very angry and disaffecting man who, being convinced he could only be evil, will act on it in a straightforward or non-straightforward manner.
But you'd rather suffer than then dare suggest that there could be any flaw within the endless jabbing at men.
Fine. Reap what you sew.
i acknowledged it and suggested that if this issue is causing severe negative thiughts they should go to not affirming therapist. the world is a tough place. idiots are everywhere. my wife had a tough
childhood . her mother is a narcissist. her psych issues are the result of a million negative comments. shes continues to be very sensitive about whatever people say. i recall telling her yesterday the only way to win this is to stop careing whay others think.
https://youtu.be/7kxK_-O1bQM?si=SYYoZCt4NvlZWxkc
life ain't easy. i empathize with this person. i think anyone would. first he had issues that caused him to suffer in a way thats not really describable but that many are familier with. and then he was misled about evidence that affirming opposite gender would help. we now know that for the past 20+ years big biz and established activist groups have been making false statements regarding the efficacy of gac. every stat and statement that claims gac helps is a lie. what this guy needed was likely psych care and or psych meds. but where does that lead this person now? its difficult to say. this is colored by so many conflicting emotions and inner reflections. these many inner reflections are also part of the curse of gac. when psych issues are allowed to continue without gac, they usually discontinue over time. and thats where i would want to go, if i were him. i realize im likely not using the polite pronouns, but i feel using ID pronouns harms people using them. and i dont want to harm anyone. so how do you get to a place where thinking about your suffering isnt a constant activity. i certinly would at least concider stop taking gender meds. i know thats not easy. but long term the meds cause misery. the goal is to stop going to the dr. and to stop thinking about suffering. 90 out of 100 people if they looked at their life know it would be a curse to be constantly reminded of their most tragic time in their life
Richie, I believe Anne is searching honestly and sincerely, but that does not mean she understands herself and her feelings. Despite all the theory she is searching for, she builds a wall rather than being receptive to warnings like yours. I do not believe that these feelings, as you suggest here, are hardwired. You will never get out of them that way. The problem is the other way around, we humans are less determined than other species. That greater freedom is what makes it difficult for us. We get caught up in value judgments, and this always evokes feelings that we project further onto ourselves. I do not believe that we help these people by going along with their story. Anne is only 21 years old, these people need to be protected from themselves. What she has to learn, and what we all have to learn, is rid ourselves of negative thoughts about ourselves, our bodies, our sex as a whole. Learning to love ourselves - in our male or female state, is the key. Knowing that it is okay to be as we are - that the other sex is no better or worse - without attaching too much value to it. Only this can free us from the delusion we have fallen into.
I'm very concerned for anyone who says he's influenced by Anne Lawrence, the doctor who was fired and lost his license to practice medicine because witnesses observed him groping a Muslim patient under anesthesia for a surgery not related to sex or identity. He wanted to know if the patient had been mutilated in the traditional removal of a woman's clitoris and parts of the labia as a religious ritual. Lawrence was an anesthesiologist, and his statements about women like me are, well, just not nice. The lack of closure regarding the death of your interviewee's father is also concerning. I sincerely hope he is experimenting only with superficial appearances and not taking estrogen or planning surgical modifications to his urinary tract. My point of view as a trans widow who collects data on the experiences of the wives of men ideating a female persona grants me knowledge of many details in the obsession. A child psychologist, Dr. Elliot Kaminetsky now terms it as Identity-Based Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I hope the influence of pornography of that sissy-hypno variety does not play a large role in his day to day routines; that he might find a way to connect to the spirit within his solar plexus and a mind/body reconnect through holistic physical work like Primal Fitness, Alexander body work and/or Feldenkrais physical therapy, as connections to the abdominal wall and calming of the vagus nerve vastly reconfigure stress reactions. He will never be accepted as a woman by the majority of the female sex. This may sound like harsh reality, but the tough love is borne out by detransitioners such as yourself, Ritchie, and Alexander L, Sam Kaye, Chris Beck, Hasci Horvath and so many others. I send you hugs and warm regards from my fall garden. To my surprise, a large Praying Mantis was sunning on my front door this morning when I opened it retrieve my just-arrived order of fall bulbs! Heal in nature. Please be well, all of you.
Thank you, once again, for wading into a difficult subject. Listening to the absolute certainty of this young person about hating their genitalia etc, reminds me of the absolute certainty my son manifested when he declared himself trans. By then he (like many others) had, rewritten his entire life to fit the narrative, with help from a trans therapist. I’m not saying that’s the case here, but my son was utterly convincing to those who hadn’t seen him up close the first 20 years of his life. I hope this young person holds off on surgery for awhile.
I'm not at all convinced that this young guy suffers from autogynephilia, though I grant he might have good reasons to think so that he just doesn't want to share in public. However, as described by Lawrence etc autogynephilia seems extremely driven by male libido, and that doesn't seem to be the case here. Rather, I'm reminded of Alexander's story, of what Hakeem says about autism and Burgo about shame. I think there's a certain type of "asexuality" and dissociation and hatred of one's genitals and body functions that's probably connected to autistic traits and that we see throughout history in a lot of philosophers and religious ascetes etc who want to disown their bodies and sexuality and live on a purely spiritual or intellectual level.
Now, there's a very contemporary version of it that's influenced by feminism and all about wanting to escape being a "cis hetero man". But I think it's wrong to blame feminism for causing the problem because it's just the latest presentation of a much older phenomenon. Older presentations used to be more straightforwardly misogynist and inspired by patriarchal religions and philosophical traditions, often blaming women for the evils of (male) sexuality. Now there's an outlet in rejecting "toxic masculinity" and trying to become an idealised woman (or girl), much like girls are trying to escape womanhood.
However, if it's genuinely about not wanting to do harm, not being a "toxic male", oppressor or sexual aggressor, consider this: Rejecting masculinity by castrating yourself and becoming a eunuch passing himself off as a woman in society is the ultimate insult to women and only perpetuates patriarchy. Women have been told by men for centuries that they're just failed men, incomplete men, inferior versions of the model human. Denying women their separate existence is patriarchal, misogynistic thinking on steroids. A man deciding to become a simulacrum of a woman is hardly about respecting women. Ultimately it's something he does for himself however self-harming and whatever the fashionable surface explanation.
I think you could be right, though I felt it was important to hear it from their perspective.
Thx Ritchie for this itw. We need to be able to share experiences & POV & refuse the hateful & misleading polarization in this topic.
💜
A few things...
1) "I first cross dressed when I was 8 and felt as though I wanted to be a girl when I was around 12-13. I hated the changes of puberty and wished my body was female.”"
There is that word FEEL again (felt) .. what does it feel like to be the opposite sex? Obviously for this person it wasn't just cross dressing.
2) I wish you would have asked this person WHY they hate their own genitals? I mean I think a lot of teens hate themselves in some way, shape or form. Looks, weight, yada yada.
3) This person wants a more scientific perspective. Have they read the CASS report and other things? I mean that is evidence.
I am not trying to belittle them their thoughts or perspective just curious.
Hey Ritchie, regardless of the reality of Anne's feelings, and how you would feel about it; I would strongly advise against surgery. What's the worst that can happen, if you get in the way of someone's life altering decision? If you love someone, why not get in the way as much as possible? Yes, maybe the worse that could happen if you got in the way by literally forcing someone the other way; you would be forcing them away and increasing their resistance to make their own decision even if it is in error. That is just a natural law of wilfulness. I don't mean get in the way by forcing Anne. But I wouldn't be afraid to voice a stronger objection to genital origami, as you have put it. You wrote that your scars remind you of your foolishness, a decision you could not go back from, procedures caused you ongoing pain both physically and mentally? What if you could prevent someone from doing something similar? Don't be afraid to apply your own experience to someone else's situation. I believe this is EXACTLY the scenario in which the trauma you experienced; APPLIES. "I hope if they do go through with it, it does give them peace, and are able to move on with their life with minimal discomfort." I'm sorry Ritchie, you know what happens if they got through with it, and it is not "minimal discomfort". And do you really think that peace gained by a gender reassignment surgery could ever be true peace?
not that I want to put this burden on you.
But maybe this puts purpose on your own suffering. Keep someone else from going down that path. Warn them against it. You don't have to disparage Anne's whole being in order to disagree with her decision. Also, it does not seem that Anne believes in God. That would help clear things up; I pray that the LORD would reveal the evil spirit behind this "auto androphobia".
The devil has been a murderer from the beginning. He is a liar and the father of lies. Hatred for male and female comes from him, because male and female are made in the image of God.
I found a lead when I followed your conversation with "Anne Onymous";
from "transgender map" a site run by "Andrea James", a correspondence which Andrea James had with "Anne Lawrence"; who our young trans man seems to have taken his name from (suspicious) https://www.transgendermap.com/people/anne-lawrence/1998-correspondence/
"I have noticed in most TSs, and in “surgery addicts” especially, a certain sort of self-loathing, a drive to efface every shred of masculinity. While I readily admit to my own autogynephilia, I would contend that my own drives toward feminization seem to have a component pushing me from the opposite direction as well.
Would this be “autoandrophobia,” perhaps?
Now, if you think you’ve caught a lot of shit about autogynephilia, just imagine what would happen if I used “TS” and “self-loathing” in the same sentence! Nonetheless, I see my own transsexual feelings paralleled in the words of people with other body dysphorias. Obviously, I’d need to think this through pretty seriously before I’d say anything for all to read, but your paper helped me form a word for that part of my own drive toward feminization.
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Now take a look at that. I appreciate the honesty from ANDREA "a drive to efface every shred of masculinity"
Honesty can't deliver anyone from such a tendency.
people need to be delivered from thinking they are the agents of their own destiny; thoughts and drives originate and end with their decision.
I guess the desire for the trans identity to be made tangible is a desire for an individual to validate their internal locus of control - they have been dealing with feelings which they cannot control, and which they cannot explain; and to cope with that, to resolve the cognitive dissonance, to end the battle in their minds which they cannot control; the body takes the blame, and they can exercise a twisted form of dominion.
Once they have resolved themselves in their mind; the battle of their uncertainty of themselves is put on the back burner - now they are "trans" in identity; so they are clear on that, therefore that which follows from them must obey the same principles of dominion which are governing their mind.
Before, when they were divided and struggling with their own cognitive dissonance, they were powerless to effect change.
Given the power of the illusion to make a substantive change in nature via hormonal manipulation and flesh origami;
They don't have to change their minds or continue to struggle with the cognitive dissonance;
now they just have to advance the agenda which has become fixed in their minds against their body which is fixed in nature
To keep the illusion of this power of their change in nature going;
as the body will naturally fight against such measures,
they need to ever keep on administering ever escalating treatments -
the maintenance of the same mental state thus will become more and more costly; to the endemic features of their native physique.
and financially, emotionally,
until they become a drained version of what they once were;
now with a new face,
which will not last for long, in the grand scheme of things.
"What shall it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul"?
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I wish to add one thing here - I once had a friend named Kai, who I thought had a beautiful face. I found out that Kai had already undergone some facial surgery so that Kai would be able to bear the reflection which Kai saw in the mirror.
However, Kai was then always honing in on another feature.
I had never seen Kai before his first surgery - had something to do with the chin, I think;
but Kai was fretting over his nose; and angling for a nose surgery.
He described how they would BREAK his nose and restructure it.
This thought gave me pain, and it pained me that this was necessary.
Of course at the time there was nothing I could do to convince Kai...I just honestly told him that I loved his nose the way it was and the thought of him breaking it to restructure it for vanity pained me.
He was also talking about breaking his cheekbones to restructure them.
Anyway at the time all I could do was affirm him, that we loved Kai the way he was;
I wish I could have shared some spiritual truth with him which would have set him free from the bondage of gender dysmorphia...
That's all I'm saying, may the LORD have mercy upon us all, in the mighty name of JESUS.